Recapitation Defibrillation

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Mechoid
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 1:31 am

Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:45 am

Right now, there is no surgical operation to make a limb functional on re-attachment other than straight smack bit on other bit. There is a non-functional segment of limb code that does absolutely nothing, that may be incorporated into the surgical steps once more later, and I have my own plans regarding surgery that I'm not comfortable talking about right now, due to how medical-proddings seem to make, quite literally from my point of view, EVERYONE angry, and I really don't like that fact. Not a single bit.

Time to make everyone angry, and I really am sorry.
Despite what is believed, right now, the surgical steps for re-attaching a head are, in fact, a bandaid and some stitches. Your PR does not fix the issue that existed, in my mind. I like Frankensteining people, because it's MAD SCIENCE, but there does need to be an actual surgical process other than smack head to body, even on a 'clean' decap, such as sawing the head off of a perfectly new body.

mistyLuminescence
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:38 am
Location: Vox populi, vox dei.

Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:52 am

Oh, yeah, the steps for attaching the head are currently band-aid and stitches (well, and sawing the stump). The steps for actually getting them in survivable state from it, though, not so much. Limb reattachment is currently way too simple anyway, so... why not kill two birds with one stone and make it into a proper process like everything else?

1) If applicable, saw stump with circular saw
2) [Organic parent limb] Open incision with scalpel / [Synthetic parent limb] Unscrew hatch with screwdriver
3) [Organic parent limb] Clamp bleeding with hemostat / [Synthetic parent limb] Open hatch with crowbar
4) [Organic parent limb] Retract skin with retractors
5) [Organic parent limb] Rewire nervous system with Fix-O-Vein / [Synthetic parent limb] Rewire circuits with cable coils
6) Attach limb
7) [Organic parent limb] Cauterise incision with cautery / [Synthetic parent limb] Close hatch with crowbar
8) [Synthetic parent limb] Screw hatch shut with screwdriver

Also, if it helps, everyone in medical loves you so we won't get too mad with your surgery plans. You're a good spider.

Wickedtemp
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:29 am

Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:59 am

Mechoid wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:45 am
Time to make everyone angry, and I really am sorry.
Despite what is believed, right now, the surgical steps for re-attaching a head are, in fact, a bandaid and some stitches. Your PR does not fix the issue that existed, in my mind. I like Frankensteining people, because it's MAD SCIENCE, but there does need to be an actual surgical process other than smack head to body, even on a 'clean' decap, such as sawing the head off of a perfectly new body.
Not angry, I've been suggesting that for...quite a while :p

Mangled
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 10:39 pm

Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:10 am

Add in a head reattachment thats slightly more complex that stickytaping it in place and I'll.. well I'll question why you're wasting your time doing this when you could just do the stickytape method and clone in the same/less time but so long as it makes you lot calm your tits I dont care.

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Billy Bangles
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:32 am
Location: Several benches simultaneously

Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:10 pm

I'm kinda with Curt on this one. I'm not against recapitation per se but there is a very good reason getting a little bit too much off the top makes you Super Dead. There are a lot of Very Important Bits in your neck that you kinda need to Not Lose in order to remain Not Dead. Your spinal column, nerves, your windpipe, and depending on where the head came off you might take some of the brain stem with you as well.

Now I agree that pulling off a difficult stunt like recapitation feels good. It's a challenge and it's rewarding. But if this does make it back in, I think it needs to be a lot more complex than pumping the dude up with chems and blood until his damage gets below a certain threshold, then zapping him. If you want to revive a man with no head you better be ready for a fuckin complex surgical maneuver. Gotta be prepared to mend the broken spine and repair some serious nerve damage before even thinking of getting near the dude with a defib. Honestly something like that should even be impossible. But it is the 2560s. This is an age where we can slap a prosthetic arm on a dude and send him off with a pat on the back and a slap on the ass, so clearly we have some method of repairing nerve damage to some degree. Personally, I'm willing to make exceptions.

So yeah. What Mangled and Wicked are saying, basically. I'm all for having this but it should be a whole hell of a lot harder than duct taping the dude's head on, giving him some koolaid, and giving him the ben franklin treatment.

Wickedtemp
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:29 am

Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:20 pm

Billy Bangles wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:10 pm
I'm kinda with Curt on this one. I'm not against recapitation per se but there is a very good reason getting a little bit too much off the top makes you Super Dead. There are a lot of Very Important Bits in your neck that you kinda need to Not Lose in order to remain Not Dead. Your spinal column, nerves, your windpipe, and depending on where the head came off you might take some of the brain stem with you as well.

Now I agree that pulling off a difficult stunt like recapitation feels good. It's a challenge and it's rewarding. But if this does make it back in, I think it needs to be a lot more complex than pumping the dude up with chems and blood until his damage gets below a certain threshold, then zapping him. If you want to revive a man with no head you better be ready for a fuckin complex surgical maneuver. Gotta be prepared to mend the broken spine and repair some serious nerve damage before even thinking of getting near the dude with a defib. Honestly something like that should even be impossible. But it is the 2560s. This is an age where we can slap a prosthetic arm on a dude and send him off with a pat on the back and a slap on the ass, so clearly we have some method of repairing nerve damage to some degree. Personally, I'm willing to make exceptions.

So yeah. What Mangled and Wicked are saying, basically. I'm all for having this but it should be a whole hell of a lot harder than duct taping the dude's head on, giving him some koolaid, and giving him the ben franklin treatment.
It's worth noting that you can't just "pump the dude up with chems until his damage gets below a certain threshold then zap him". Chems don't work on corpses. Your only option for lowering the damage is the trauma and burn kit, which can only be used once per limb to heal 3 damage. This means that a single extra stab or a single extra bullet can easily make a corpse impossible to defib. You can administer chems that the patient will need once they're alive so they kick as soon as they're brought back, but they're not working while the patient's dead.

Doing a recap-defib is already difficult, believe it or not. While it was possible, it was only done two, maybe three times, total, that I'm aware of. All other attempts failed. One of those attempts actually took both Sana and I double-teaming the operation and we came within 1 damage point of failure. This was before the trauma kit nerf, so now that operation would have been impossible. Adding surgical steps for reattaching limbs, sure, but shoving in a needlessly complex 5-minute-long surgery would turn "challenging and fun" into "a waste of time".

TLDR: Yeh, 7-step surgery, go for it. But if it's got 30-second-steps or if it's going to take 4+ minutes, that's just going to bring this feature back while essentially killing it again.

Duskwatch
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 6:16 pm

Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:29 pm

I can see the arguments on both sides so I'm posting my stance as a despicable neutral on this one.

Curt5
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:42 pm

Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:05 pm

Duskwatch wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:29 pm
I can see the arguments on both sides so I'm posting my stance as a despicable neutral on this one.
I'll tell your wife you said... hello.

On the topic of 'don't make the surgery too hard,' it shouldn't exactly be easy mode, but don't even the most complex surgical steps take ~10 seconds to complete at most? Having one doctor do the neck and head repairing surgeries while the other traumakits the body back to sub-200 damage makes it seem like time would be a non-issue, so long as everyone is working diligently.

Additionally, if making *all* limb replacement require more advanced surgeries came about from this change, that'd be pretty A+.

Wickedtemp
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:29 am

Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:20 pm

Curt5 wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:05 pm
Duskwatch wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:29 pm
I can see the arguments on both sides so I'm posting my stance as a despicable neutral on this one.
I'll tell your wife you said... hello.

On the topic of 'don't make the surgery too hard,' it shouldn't exactly be easy mode, but don't even the most complex surgical steps take ~10 seconds to complete at most? Having one doctor do the neck and head repairing surgeries while the other traumakits the body back to sub-200 damage makes it seem like time would be a non-issue, so long as everyone is working diligently.

Additionally, if making *all* limb replacement require more advanced surgeries came about from this change, that'd be pretty A+.
I'm not saying 'don't make it too hard', I just don't want abnormally long wait-times for step completion. If the surgery has ten steps to it, each step is around 4 or so seconds to do as normal, excellent. But if it turns into "and this step takes 20 seconds cause it's extra extra hard", I wouldn't be a fan, because that means for those 20, 40 seconds, I'm staring at a screen unable to do anything, whereas with multiple shorter steps, I'm actually doing stuff.

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Woodrat
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 11:22 pm

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:30 am

Addressed at the staff meeting.

Solution

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