Additional Access

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mistyLuminescence
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:38 am
Location: Vox populi, vox dei.

Mon May 27, 2019 6:26 pm

Fun fact: somewhere in the code, there exists a config setting to give jobs additional access (depending on the population, but here we'll just talk about giving jobs more access in general).
Things like giving Scientists access to Robotics (and Roboticists access to Science), MDs access to Chemistry (and Chemists access to Surgery), Detectives access to Sec lockers (and Officers access to Forensics), etc etc. Pilots and Explorers, Engineers and Atmos Techs, and so on.

Scientist's access with config on: access_robotics, access_tox, access_tox_storage, access_research, access_xenobiology, access_xenoarch
Scientist's access with config off: access_tox, access_tox_storage, access_research, access_xenoarch

MD's access with config on: access_medical, access_medical_equip, access_morgue, access_surgery, access_chemistry, access_virology, access_genetics, access_eva
MD's access with config off: access_medical, access_medical_equip, access_morgue, access_surgery, access_virology, access_eva

Engineer's access with config on: access_eva, access_engine, access_engine_equip, access_tech_storage, access_maint_tunnels, access_external_airlocks, access_construction, access_atmospherics
Engineer's access with config off: access_eva, access_engine, access_engine_equip, access_tech_storage, access_maint_tunnels, access_external_airlocks, access_construction

Bartender's access with config on: access_hydroponics, access_bar, access_kitchen
Bartender's access with config off: access_bar

You get the idea. It's all stuff that the other members of your department can access- which is fine if they actually exist, but as we know, lowpop ain't like that.

"But won't this just encourage people to do someone else's job for them?"
Not really, because you're not going to be doing kitchen stuff as a Bartender if there's a Chef there already. It'd only be relevant when there's nobody else to do that job.
"What about people being too good at their department?"
What about it? It's not like heads of staff aren't experts at their department anyway, and we're not enforcing mechanical "you can't do this! >:(", we're not CM.
"But won't this mean there's no difference between jobs in the same department?"
A job is more than the access they get on their ID card- Nurse, MD, EP, Surgeon and Virologist all share the exact same access, but have different specialities.

What's more fun? A round with no Chef, so nobody ever goes into the Kitchen? Or a round with no Chef, where the Botanist goes in and makes some berry waffles to serve up to the crew?

TL;DR: Give jobs more access, because more often than not there won't be anyone with that access anyway- and if there is, defer to them.

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Cerebulon
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 1:58 am

Mon May 27, 2019 6:33 pm

Already shared my onion on discord but here it is again:
Don't like this at all, because roundstart is almost always lowpop even if there's a ton of people on, and even Big Rounds can start out with just a couple of people whether it's because of the time of day or just because everybody joined 5 minutes into the round because they couldn't decide who to play.
So this would essentially end up applying to every round, and end up encouraging mega-department play (I'm sure you've met some Sec players, don't pretend they wouldn't turn into master detectives at the slightest provocation) which would render the benefits of having certain jobs redundant (Chemist, Pilot, Forensics particularly) and discourage people from joining as them midround since the departments would have them covered anyway (And 90% of people join all rounds midround).
Medical can function at about 80% efficiency without cool meds, explorers can wait like 3 minutes to go to the surface, and security can do without permanent access to the very powerful forensics.

Mangled
Posts: 387
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 10:39 pm

Mon May 27, 2019 10:36 pm

It auto reverts access to default once more people though so whats the problem.

mistyLuminescence
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:38 am
Location: Vox populi, vox dei.

Mon May 27, 2019 10:41 pm

Just to clarify, this is specifically talking about just a blanket increase in access for any playercount (i.e. enabling the config and changing it to like, 999 players), because turning it off after a certain threshold is lame.

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DasIrrlicht
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:11 pm

Tue May 28, 2019 12:02 pm

Mangled wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 10:36 pm
It auto reverts access to default once more people though so whats the problem.
That will just result in people being trapped.
Bartender stuck in the walkin-freezer, surgeon in chemistry and so on. Because some assistant joined and movedd the playernumber over the cap.

If people break in, at least one can rely that they also can break out again. And the only role required to bypass a lock in order to do the job practically is engineering, anyways, and they really have no issue opening atmos for a phoroncooled reactor.


Adding by default more access would essencially make every job a alttitle for a universal 'Works in department X'.
What does leave a sour taste in my mouth. Give Botany a shotgun and the robotocist TTVs?

Mangled
Posts: 387
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 10:39 pm

Tue May 28, 2019 1:59 pm

No it'd only do that if a chef joined. Or a Chemist, or a CMO depending on which example gets trapped where. And in that case they won't really be trapped at all now will they, the "proper" person for the job has just arrived and is likely on their way to their workplace now so they can let out the Bartender/surgeon/whatever.

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DasIrrlicht
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:11 pm

Tue May 28, 2019 4:30 pm

Still, changing access on IDs mid round an somewhat unannounced is a bit... Eh.
Even if it only triggers on 'X has joined' and not 'There are Y players'.

mistyLuminescence
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:38 am
Location: Vox populi, vox dei.

Tue May 28, 2019 8:20 pm

Again, this is specifically talking about just a blanket increase in access for any playercount (i.e. enabling the config and changing it to like, 999 players), because turning it off after a certain threshold is lame. People won't be trapped anywhere, and no IDs will be changed midround. Having several jobs in the same department have the same access doesn't seem like a problem, honestly- we already have that with alt-titles (e.g. MD, Surgeon, Nurse and Virologist all do different things, despite sharing access), and it's all 'reasonable' access that any HoP would give without second thought. But since we never have HoPs...

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Nalarac
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 2:50 pm

Thu May 30, 2019 3:56 pm

I wouldn't really mind this change very much honestly. It'd make getting into areas of your department a lot easier when 90% of the time there is actually no one with access to that room if it's not you. I also personally feel that most of these access additions wouldn't be abused by the characters. Namely because people don't do things because they "can", they do it to get some kind of benefit out of it. A roboticist isn't going to go into the toxin's lab to make a bomb just because they magically have access. Unless a life or death situation arises (where character skills magically get broader), people generally tend to stick to what their character would know.

I see three of these access points being used most often. The first is chemistry. Having the medicine you can produce in chemistry is super nice, and most of the time people only want the base three chemicals (bicaridine, dexalin [plus], and dermaline). I would also argue that joining the round to do ten minutes of chemical mixing isn't something many people would do.

The second is the research lab and robotics lab combo. It's really dull not having the research levels or upgraded parts in the robotics lab. It's quality of life in my opinion and it allows for research to give out more items to the crew if it's just one member of the department (and we all know that we rarely get research goodies).

The third is the kitchen because I imagine bartenders, gardeners, and cooks would all like to be able to cater to the people who sit around their bar/cafeteria to socialize.

I will give atmospherics an honorable mention, but engineers already can and will hack into the room. I would honestly support merging the atmospheric technician as an alt title FOR engineer if I didn't already know some staff were against that.

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ZekeSulastin
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 11:15 pm

Fri May 31, 2019 2:54 am

It may be a good idea to hold off on messing with access until the skill thing is in, since mechanical-effect skills are in fact going to be a thing.

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