[Discussion] VeyMed more fragile

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Woodrat
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Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:18 pm

Since it should probably have a forum side discussion on it.

Link

Thoughts?

Curt5
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Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:11 pm

I like.

elgeonmb
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Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:38 pm

Good.

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schnayy
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Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:44 pm

Excellent. Sehr gut. Bueno. Yes.

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PrismaticGynoid
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Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:47 pm

Please, no. Not unless this affected the values of every brand of limb to make them stronger/weaker (looking at you, Cyber Solutions), and I'd be uncomfortable with that, even - just looking at examples from the wiki page, there's both high and low quality unbranded limbs, Cyber Solutions limbs modified to make them actually decent, knock-off Bishop limbs that are actually painted NT parts, and epoxied Zeng-Hu bodies being passed off as Vey-Med. Let's not mechanically restrict people from being able to fluff their new Vey-Med hand as a modified Zeng-Hu.

Instead, here's an idea. You know that already-existing nerf that was done to Vey-Med parts a while back? Why not make it more relevant, by making EMP-causing weapons more readily accessible? It would make sense, with all the recent scares with emergent drones, cybernetically-modified Boiling Point terrorists, and the secessionist Almach states. Give those positronic Vey-Med explorers a scare with some anti-synth weaponry pointed against them while exploring surface PoIs.

If the goal of this PR is to reduce the number of characters using Vey-Med, I'd argue that's it's not going to work. Most people playing aren't going to know about any mechanical downside to the limbs. Yes, there's a changelog, yes, there might be an announcement, but those things get unread, forgotten, and buried over time. Until there's a way of viewing the differences between the limbs in the character setup menu - something that's been discussed multiple times, including at the last staff meeting - I don't think we're going to see any major change in how many people use these limbs. Not from making them weaker, and not from the lore page on prosthetics, despite how wonderful it is that it's all now written down.

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ZekeSulastin
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Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:01 pm

The two best mechanical ways to reduce the amount of Vey-Med prosthetics if that is indeed your intent would be to either whitelist them (which would allow maximum character flexibility while requiring the player to remain accountable) or set a minimum economic multiplier required for each brand of limb (for reference, the components of this multiplier are species, job, and economic status). An override for the `Visitor` alt-title would probably be required so that only the economic status is checked. I'd say just use the economic status like the wiki article is written but it's freely selectable, so ...

If you're going to lean on lore for singling out Vey-Med prosthetics, you could also go through and set the damage multipliers for the other types to help enforce that consistency since the code is already there. If you wanted to spend more time and effort, you could also do !!FUN!! things like modifying the step delay in tasks to emulate dexterity, adding a drop chance like a damaged limb, etc.

Of course, given trends in prosthetics today and the level of biotech and cybernetics in the Polaris universe I'm not entirely certain why there would be only one brand of cybernetics that would attempt to mimic natural parts in look, feel, and sensory interface, let alone only at the ludicrous price tier. That's just me complaining, though.
Heck, I would figure NanoTrasen would have such a model given their background.

Full range of multispecies parts when
Or the bioprinter/genetics body growing
Or both
Did you know that a Wealthy tajaran gets 9% less money at round start than an Average human?

elgeonmb
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Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:49 pm

ZekeSulastin wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:01 pm
Of course, given trends in prosthetics today and the level of biotech and cybernetics in the Polaris universe I'm not entirely certain why there would be only one brand of cybernetics that would attempt to mimic natural parts in look, feel, and sensory interface, let alone only at the ludicrous price tier. That's just me complaining, though.
Vey-Med has a state-supported monopoly established so SolGov can continue getting that sweet sweet Skrell tech. Sure, there's probably other brands of hyperrealistic prosthesis, but they're more expensive and much rarer, so they're not mechanically reflected in the same way that there's dozens of Cyber S - tier manufacturers but we only have the one.

(The rest of your post will come when you sprite and code it.)

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Cerebulon
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Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:57 pm

Personally I'm for a whitelist or something. There's justifiable reasons for certain characters to have them, but others... Absolutely should not.
I don't think straight nerfs are going to do much, since people are using them for aesthetic reasons and not a mechanical advantage over meat-humans for the mostpart.
Also we have Zeng-Hu for if you absolutely must look vaguely human and probably shouldn't be in a VeyMed.

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ZekeSulastin
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Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:01 pm

I somehow missed Zeng-Hu completely when I was looking at the wiki and the suggested economic ranges and sprites and such. Woops. I think everything else I mentioned still stands, though.

Also the bioprinter etc already exists. It's just not mapped in because people want a reason to attach ICly mediocre prosthetic arms in round.

[EDIT]Since I was asked elsewhere, a couple specific examples of cool-but-code-spaghetti things would be having additional time adding wires to assemblies if you have a Xion arm, or red fatigue messages like the species-overheat-messages if you have Grayson arms without a beefy enough torso to easily support them, that sorta thing. Wouldn't do much to reduce VeyMed specifically, but it would be neat to have down the line.[/EDIT]

Lance77am
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Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:38 am

Alright I was typing up a long post about how ugu this will negatively impact people's game play for no reason other than fluff // It'd be cool but you really should have an opt-in opt-out for this so people who care more about lore can opt in if they care since most players are willing to take on a handicap but not all of them are-

Then I kinda realized: That's the point. People's sense of the setting and fluff are dictated first by in game mechanics, second by what lore pages say. Therefore I support this idea a whole bunch and such, allow all the manufacturers to be unique! Just stay wary of powergamey behavior potential and all, as I'm sure y'all are good at by this point. Personally, if I had to nitpick [Disclaimer: Not a coder, not asking, just spitballing]: Every limb should have a drawback and a benefit. Higher brute lower burn, higher burn lower brute, human appearing but more fragile, and then y'all would need to get creative with more solutions from there. Nothing strictly better is good in my book, but make sure you can dedicate to the "looks human" shtick if you're gonna weigh it as a real benefit.

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