Teshari Balance

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Trignan
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:36 am

Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:08 am

Heya, folks. This isn't a topic I'm supremely comfortable with, given that I don't have a lot of time on Polaris as of late, but having run a teshari explorer several rounds, including a certain auspicious round where I ended up getting killed by 'minor' enemies, there seems to be a pretty massive disconnect mechanically between general teshari playability when damage is being thrown around and basically every other race. I'm going to start with the mechanical baseline from teshari.dm on the Polaris github:

Code: Select all

	total_health = 50
	brute_mod = 1.35
	burn_mod =  1.35
Total_health is the measurement of how much abuse you can take before you go down. I don't know the finer points of pain and how critical works, but teshari have 50 health versus 100, which is the baseline for humans. This effectively means all damage is doubled from all sources; One point of damage hurts a teshari twice as much as it would a human, because they have half the health pool. In addition to this, the two _mod entries above are a further 35% multiplier on all incoming burn and brute damage, which is the vast majority of what you'll see being thrown around in a fight. An attack to that does 10 brute damage normally would deal 1.35x that amount, or 13.5 brute. Given that teshari, as mentioned, only have 50 health, this is the same as doing 27 brute damage to a 100 health entity, or 270% of base damage.

This isn't the whole story, of course. Teshari are crazy fast normally, and people usually point that way as far as the relative balance is concerned. They can run circles around any other race, and with the ability to ignore a lot of obstacles that others need to climb over, they're insanely mobile. There are two main things that will strip away teshari speed; Equipment, like voidsuits, which have a movespeed penalty, and pain. I don't know the exact threshold, but once you take a certain amount of damage, your character slows down significantly. When this happens to a teshari, they drop to below human speed, and it doesn't take much. 10-20 brute or burn damage is usually enough to strip away the speed advantage, and the fight is usually over quickly after that.

To make something clear here: Between player courtesy and the usual style of Polaris PvP, I feel like teshari, more or less, are balanced in PvP with the understanding that we're not all running around powergaming. Generally speaking, usually people aren't trying to outright kill you when fighting in Polaris, and the speed advantage is particularly pronounced against fellow players, because it's difficult to click on a teshari that's running at top speed.

Where things start to break down is simplemobs, because all they care about is dropping you into crit, and they automatically hit you if you're adjacent. For teshari, the melee mobs are extremely easy to either kite or avoid in open spaces, but as soon as you enter a building or the caves, you often don't have room to move around much, and it's very easy to get caught in corners. Hunter spiders, with 9-15 melee damage, the leap ability, and a 1.5 damage multiplier on downed targets on top of no movement cooldown were the worst to fight among the melee spiders, and if you get successfully knocked over by a hunter as teshari, you're generally dead unless you have a friend.

All of this gets worse with range-capable mobs. I haven't had the chance to fight any 'serious' ranged enemies as teshari, but considering a normal laser does 40 damage, it sounds like our aspiring teshari explorer would be dead or crippled from a single hit, and ranged mobs aren't penalized at all by teshari speed once they're shooting.

My point is that all of this boils down to an extremely punishing gameplay experience, and practically speaking, going solo explorer, which is extremely challenging even with 'normal' stats, becomes effectively impossible. Even working in a team, it's extremely easy as a teshari to be mortally wounded by one or two attacks, and even Space Bats, which are the weakest hostile you can encounter in the caves, will seriously mess up a teshari if you don't kill them immediately.

There's a few ways we can look at all this, but probably the biggest counter to all this is probably going to be 'Teshari are pack hunters!' I agree in principle on that, but given the average population on Polaris, if you're not playing during highpop, you're unlikely to have a second explorer unless somebody else specifically sets out to give you a battle buddy, and even during highpop, another explorer isn't guaranteed.

In short, having tried explorer a few times, the numbers seem wildly unbalanced and deeply biased against teshari characters. I feel like we need to tone down both the overall health malus compared to baseline, in addition to the damage multipliers.

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DasIrrlicht
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:11 pm

Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:10 pm

I will not go for the Teshari PvP balance, for they are incredibe strong the moment you introduce pistols to the mix, and reasonably strong considering melee only. In turn, Glass cannons.
The PvE, however, has reasonable points. Basically, it is likely easyer to code and probably less taxing to have Melee/Ranged aimbots that have at best modificators for their weapon.

That is not a teshari only problem, but a PvE problem in general, but I would still like to suggest a reasonable simple solution:
A modificator for AI to miss on purposes relative to your slowdown-stat, maybe with no slowdown being 90% acurate as standard (Maybe a variable that can be different between different kind of AI-Enemy).
Fast teshari would be missed, in melee and in ranged, by AI more often as result. This would represent, even on a standing character, them being nimble and trying to avoid the hit. Permaslow characters, like Diona or suit-users, would be closer to 99'% acurate AI shots/punches/bites.

This extra chance to miss should not be big, it should be outright small, just good enoth to not be dismissable. And it should only apply to AI-Enemys, be it Spiders and mercs or Turrets, ED, Beepsky and the slimes. (For that matterm having a slimes base-chance to miss comparable high could easily neuter them a bit for the Xeno-Baton to be viable to use, ever)

Tl;Dr Simple Mobs should get two new variables to miss 'on-purposes' calculated from a base-chance attached to mob-type and the slowdown-modificator of a creature fougth against. (Read: More accurate the slower the Player)

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schnayy
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 3:08 am
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Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:42 pm

Aside from maybe a minor health buff, I’m against buffing teshari. You have disadvantages, more so than some species. Working as intended, at least in my opinion, but I’m just one Dev.

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Cerebulon
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 1:58 am

Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:19 am

Tesh are very intentionally hard to play in this kind of role and if it's too hard then don't literally intentionally play on hard mode.

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